Episode 42:

Andrew & Pete

How to attract your ideal client with content marketing

As motion designers we create content for our clients. But how can we use the content we create for our own marketing purposes? How can we use it to get clients who don’t even know what motion design is? I’ve brought two guests on today who are going to answer those very questions!

Today we have Andrew and Pete on the podcast. They are content marketers who help small businesses grow and find customers through their company Andrew & Pete. These guys are great at explaining the often ignored, but incredibly crucial parts of marketing your skills and your business. Their goal is to help people like you and me succeed without hustling ourselves into the ground.

In this interview, we talk about your potential for helping businesses with their content marketing and so much more. We discuss the role that YouTube can play, how you can improve your pricing strategy, and the usefulness of Linkedin. We also talk about discovering the content that you can create that will entertain or help potential customers the most. This episode is packed with great and actionable advice that you can start using today.

How have you been marketing your business? Tell me about it in the comments!

In this episode

  • What content marketing is and how motion designers can play a part in it
  • How to use your content to attract your customers by making them feel happier or smarter
  • YouTube’s unique potential to help you attract the right kind of clients for you
  • Why it’s better to post nothing at all on social media than something mediocre
  • Tips for using Linkedin to help find and connect with potential customers
  • How to figure out if you’re charging enough for your work and why it’s probably time to raise your rates


“The beauty of content is that it reduces the need to be a bit more scrappy to get clients — having to go to networking events and stuff like that. We haven't been to a networking event for years and years because all of our business comes from our content.” [6:11]  “You’re in a content pure industry because your customers do not care about how you do what you do. They don’t want to learn how to create motion graphics themselves…. But you need to remember that content marketing needs to make your customers feel happier or smarter.” [8:12] “I would rather you do an awesome emotional actionable entertaining animation once a month than four average ones once a week.” [27:21] “It’s really easy right now to stand out on Linkedin with good video. Not boring video, but good video. Animation, stop-motion graphics, anything like that would go down as such a storm on there if you did it really well.” [31:42]

Related links

The Freelance Contract Bundle

The Freelance Contract Bundle helps motion designers and animators protect themselves and their businesses via two professional contract templates: Freelance Terms of Service Contract for day rate/hourly projects in-house, and a Commissioning Contract for direct-to-client work.

Episode 42:


Andrew & Pete Transcript

Andrew 0:01
You're in a content poor industry, right? Because your customers do not care about how you do what you do. Right? They don't want to learn how to create motion graphics themselves,

Pete 0:14
and they don't want to watch your motion graphics that you've done for other clients, because that's not relevant to them.

Andrew 0:21
Yes. So you almost need to use that skill what you've got, but you need to kind of remember content marketing needs to make your customers feel happier, or smarter.

Hayley Akins 0:34
Hey, Hatchlings. Welcome to the motion hatch podcast. I'm your host Hayley Akins. Hey, Hatchlings, thank you so much for joining me on the motion hatch podcast. This is Episode 42. On the podcast, we talk about the business side of motion design and animation. You know, things like how much did you charge? When should you go freelance? Should you be using LinkedIn to find clients and should you be doing content marketing? On this week's episode, we have Andrew and Pete. Now they are content marketers. They help small businesses with their content marketing, and they're just really funny guys. I've seen them speak twice. And I just really liked their talk. So I thought I'd bring them on the show to help you all with content marketing. And actually, we talked about a ton of stuff. We talked about content marketing, we talked about YouTube, we talked about pricing, we talked about LinkedIn. So please do stay tuned. This episode is jam packed full of awesome tips and advice for you. And I'll see you on the other side.

Hey, Angie, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Andrew 1:46
So happy to be here. Thank you so much for the invite.

Hayley Akins 1:48
Yeah. So do you want to tell us like a bit about your backgrounds? And what you do?

Pete 1:53
Yeah, sure. So we are Andrew and P. That's right. There are two rivers two voices. Speaking?

Andrew 2:00
Yeah, I am Andrew

Pete 2:03
And together we are, Andrew & Pete.

Andrew 2:08
So we don't have sound effects. Yeah, we bring our own.

Pete 2:13
Say, you know, it's really obvious what we do from the name of the company and your MP. And that was sarcasm. So we are British, know, if you are in America, or anywhere else in the world. That's, that's some British sarcasm. We first met at University, we got randomly placed in the same halls and residence together. And then we kind of bonded over our ambition to one day rule the world and run a business. So after university, rather than getting a job, we actually just started our own business, and Andrew actually wanted to go live with his girlfriend up in Newcastle. So we made that decision to actually move to Newcastle, and start up in a whole new city from scratch. And no, I took that brave decision to go with him and be that third wheel, as it were. And we started up our business. And it went terribly for like a good three or four years, because we're all over the place, didn't know what we were doing, not making any money. And then the moment we kind of got our heads together, we are focused. And we started creating good content. It's when everything started to change for us. And it was almost overnight, when we started to create really good content, we started to our YouTube channel. And over some, we went, you know, Sky High, the business kind of exploded. And that's the message that we'd love to share with people today, how they can grow their business using content.

Hayley Akins 3:45
Yeah, so do you want to kind of tell us a bit, give us some examples of content marketing, just in case people don't really know what that term means. I mean, not a lot of motion designers are using content marketing for their businesses, but we make a lot of videos.

Andrew 4:00
Yeah, it is a little bit of a buzz word. And it can be quite complicated as well, but we don't think it needs to be so pretty much. The internet is made up of content, right? So social media post is content. A blog is content of podcast is content. YouTube is content, any kind of video, it's all content, right? And the old way of marketing and advertising was to interrupt people, right? You would buy ads on TV or on the radio. And back in the day. Like that was useful to people like that's how people found out about new products and services. But nowadays, to find out about new products and services, we Google right all we see a post on Facebook or a friend share something in our DMS, right, we don't need old interruption advertising. And so we know it's annoying. Yeah, it's annoying. And we fast forward the adverts like we don't watch them because we want to watch the adverts right. So content marketing, is pretty much creating content, whether that's audio, whether that's visuals, whether that's video, whether that's the written word, to make our customers feel happier, or smarter, or make our potential customers feel happier or smarter.

Pete 5:20
So the idea is you start creating content, you have a blog, or a podcast or video channel, or, you know, you start to post a lot on social media. And the idea is to build up loyalty to build up trust, build up an audience of potential customers who will one day buy from you. And there's different types of content that you can create, to attract people to draw them in. And then also to convert them into sales. And we find a lot of people try and do both at the same time. Or try and only do one or only do the other type of salesy content or just the audience stuff. And it doesn't quite work out for them the way they're building it, people that don't buy from them, or they don't build an audience, and they just kind of put people off by selling too much. So it's important to get that balance, right. But also, the beauty of content is just the fact that it reduces the need to scrap it build a bit more scrappy to get clients and, you know, having to go to networking events and stuff like that we haven't been to a networking event for years and years because of business just comes from our content. And I think that's kind of not, you know, the dream quotes for people not having to chase customers, they just come to you. And you can charge more for it because you're more in demand. And I think that's the beauty of content.

Hayley Akins 6:43
Yeah, I think there's like a lot to dig in there. So basically, as motion designers, what we're mostly doing now is we're creating animations for clients. So I guess where we're like creating the content for the clients, for their businesses, if that makes sense. And then were like putting out on Instagram and stuff like that. And we're getting like, a lot of maybe people, some people are good at that. And they get like a lot of followers from the motion designers and stuff. But I'm just trying to think of like ways like how can we as motion designers use content marketing in like a different way? That's not just showing? Look at my really nice animation. And designers like yeah, that's really cool. But like, how do we get more like direct clients who maybe they don't know what motion sign is? Or something like that? You know? How would How do you think we could use content marketing in that way to kind of target them?

Andrew 7:36
Yeah, that's a great question. And we often break down industries into content rich industries and content, poor industries. And we actually get annoyed when other content marketers and other marketers think everyone's got it as easy as them, right? Because as marketers, we're in a very much a content rich industry, where if we talk about marketing my we talk about how we do what we do in our content. And our customers are interested in that. Right? Because our customers want a lot about marketing. If you're a motion designer, you're in a content poor industry, right? Because your customers do not care about how you do what you do. Right? They don't want to learn how to create motion graphics themselves.

Pete 8:25
And they don't want to watch your motion graphics that you've done for their clients, because that's not relevant to them.

Andrew 8:32
Yes. So you almost need to use that skill like you've got, because that is a really great skill that you should be utilizing in your market. Like, you know, a lot of people can do that skill. But you need to kind of flip it, you need to kind of remember content marketing needs to make your customers feel happier, or smarter, right. So your content should be making your customers feel happier or smarter. So you need to almost either just be really entertaining, like really entertaining with your content, that's a great way to do it. All, like problem solve, like, could you problem solve with motion design, like something that just came to my head is if you if you want to solve people's problems, could you take other people in your industry is not in your industry, sorry, the blog posts, like maybe business development, blog posts, or podcasts and turn them into motion graphics.

Pete 9:29
Yeah, so for example, if you're a motion designer, we see this a lot with the creatives are like photographers, graphic designers leave the building of audiences of other photographers and other graphic designers, and not their clients. Because that's showing people like how to do graphic design tips and photography tips, and it's not actually growing your audience they want, it does grow credibility, in the sense that you're demonstrating what you do. So it's not necessarily a bad thing. And you know, you can build up a good audience and be like the king of all graphic designers, or the king of all motion designers. Right? That could be, you know, a goal yet you may want and it does bring credibility, however, and when people check you out, like they're going to see all this work, and that's fantastic. But if you want an easier life, it would be much better if you create content actually helps or entertains your potential customers. So you want to find out what their problems are. Want to talk about things that entertain them, or that help them in some way. And probably I don't know, I haven't done that much research into the Best Motion designers and the content they create. But I'm betting there's someone else that does a really awesome job of just telling, like, very simple stories. And I'm pretty sure there's one that does on YouTube, he creates like, one video, like a month. And it's just like a one minute animation. And he's got one hundreds of thousands of subscribers, because it's just like a little entertaining story. And not totally does. And it's that kind of thing that we need to get a grip of what content can we create, that's going to entertain our help our potential customers, and you guys listening have like the the easiest job in the world to stand out with this, because you have such an extraordinary talent that is not accessible to so many people. Yeah, so you need to use that.

Andrew 11:33
Yeah, like the program content rich industries have is like it's often really saturated, either thousands of marketers talking about marketing, right? I don't think there's that many motion, graphics people doing really good content marketing. So the opportunity is there for you to take.

Pete 11:53
And I can just I did before, but if you were to ask your direct customers, like what they like what they like, reading, maybe go take that content, and put it in a motion design, and tell those people that you're going to do it and tuck them in it and so forth. But that would be like the most engaging, interesting content that your audience already reads and already wants to know. But just in a more engaging way.

Andrew 12:16
Yeah, I feel like the biggest problem that you have to solve before you even do that, though, is actually knowing who your customers are, and what their problems are. So it's really easy in any creative industry to be a complete jack of all trades, and help anyone with everything. But if you like really follow the money and specialized, like what industry do you enjoy working in the most, or where's the biggest financial rewards, let's grow an audience of those people. It doesn't mean that you can't take the word from the client. Like if you want to, to pay the bills, if you're just getting started. But like, if you grow an audience of every specific type of person, or type of business, then the content marketing strategy becomes a lot easier.

Pete 13:03
Yeah. And then it's someone's like, core

a layer like an onion as something like, if you really go and focus on that one little niche, your life will be a lot easier. But then, like, for example, with us, we love to help small business owners, one man bands, micro businesses, small teams. But then what we find is like, big, big brands come after us as well, like big fortune 500, companies will come and ask us, Hey, guys, can you do this? Or can you help us with this? And say, well, we're not targeting you at all. But you still get in that attention. So it doesn't exclude everyone else as much as you maybe think it might.

Hayley Akins 13:46
Yeah, I think that's the fear in our industry, because a lot of people are quite generalist, and they they're just working for like advertising agencies and other animation studios, but a lot of people now want to make their own studios and kind of want to get more direct clients. And I feel like not enough people are exploring, like, Well, okay, we want to get direct clients, but who are they like? Like you're saying, it's like, if you don't know who they are, you can't go and ask them questions and say, what you're interested in, what kind of motion designs Do you want to see you know what I mean, like an animations online, and then it felt like, there's like two sides of this, like, you could like what you were saying, Andrew before is like, you could do, you know, like, try and solve their problems and like, make motion designs that like telling a story about how to solve a problem. And then they're like, oh, if you can do that, and tell us how to solve our problem, maybe you can tell our customers how to solve their problem. So there's like that way, and then there's also doing like, entertaining content on YouTube. I feel like hardly anyone is doing that. Because they just think, Oh, it's so hard. And how would I ever make money doing that? Like, do you have any YouTube kind of tips and like, if someone was like, I've got this idea, like about, you know, making motion design pieces about I don't know, like, like fun things like how to, like put a tire on or in you know what i mean, like.

Pete 15:13
playing a video for the most simplest things in the world.

Andrew 15:16
Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, like the beauty of YouTube is that it's a search engine. So YouTube is actually our personal favorite platform to create for just because the lifespan of content is almost infinite. So if you create like a motion design for Instagram, or motion design for Facebook, you kind of in the algorithm tolerance. And I don't know, it could last maybe up to a week, if you're lucky. But sometimes they're like flop within a day, and you got no more comments on YouTube, because it's much like if you if you optimise your video for I don't know how to put on a tire to use your example, you can get views like literally every single day, for years, like some of videos on YouTube, because it's like, it's almost like an exponential curve. It's not like, this video gets this one site, one video gets X amount of views per month. And then if you do another video, the next one fits like that video gets X amount of views, and the first video still gets X amount of views, if it's optimized for search. So search strategy, we always say is really important, if you want to make sure YouTube is your number one place to be creating content for and there's loads of advice out there for how to optimise your videos, our favourite tool that we use is cold morning fame. Morning. fa.me. So that will tell us based on our channel, which videos have a chance of actually ranking, right because it is like a bit of a competition. YouTube so if how to put in a tire gets 1000 let's say it gets 100,000. So a month, this data is off the top of my head, I did not know this 100,000 searches a month you're a brand new channel with no subscribers, no videos, the chances of you ranking for that are pretty slim. Right? So you met might need to go for a less competitive keyword to begin with, like how to put on a tire for absolutely begin…for absolute beginners or how to put on a on a tire wearing a side of a road or whatever, right, like longer tail keywords that might have like 100 searches a month or 500 searches a month. But you almost need to start at that level them

Hayley Akins 17:39
Yeah, I live how we're talking about tires. That's not come up on the podcast. That was my fault. Yeah. So yeah, like, do you have any tools that feel like searching for like what people are putting on there. And I guess this comes back to the nice thing again, if you have like a new business, like motion design company that's serving like a particular industry, it's probably much easier to like rank for stuff

Andrew 18:08
like that. I mean, we always just start with suggested search. So if you put in, if you start searching something on YouTube, and YouTube is showing you the suggested search, that means some people are searching for that, you don't know how many people are searching for that. Bu t you know, some people are searching for that. And then we use another tool called keywords everywhere, which is just a free Google Chrome plugin. And that will give you average amount. So when you're doing the suggested search it will actually show average amounts of how many people are actually searching for that keyword. So that's like where we start. And then we use tools like morningfame or just mentioned, and we use vid IQ and and two, but here we have both of the free versions of those installed on our channel. Some people swear by for IQ some people swear by TubeBuddy. We just use them both. That's right.

Hayley Akins 19:03

When was the last time a client paid you late or you want to charge for a project falls but didn't know how most of the issues we face in our businesses. As motion designers can be solved with good communication. The best way to communicate your terms up front of the client and ensure your project run smoothly is to have a solid contract in place. In talking to motion designers. I know that most are either not using contract at all or have cobbled together one from various online sources. I get it, lawyers can be expensive, and you just want to get on with what you do best, which is making great work. That's exactly why I created the freelance contract bundle designed in collaboration with lawyers from both the UK and the US. The freelance contract bundles a set of downloadable contract templates made specially for motion designers and animators. It includes a commission contract and the freelance terms of service contract, helping you create smoother relationships both direct client and also while working with agencies and studios to find out how the freelance contract bundle can help protect your business your work and ensure your projects run smoothly go to motion hatch.com forward slash contract. Now let's get back to the episode.

I was just thinking about as well, like a really popular channel that I don't know how to say the name, but they make really nice animations that are about like sharing things about I don't know lots of different things I'm just looking at now about sharing they make animation videos share things about knowledge, in a nutshell, is their old name. I think it's called like code. Cuz I don't know,

Hey, so I just wanted to pop it in here cuz I was like, Whoa, Haley, you're embarrassing yourself in the section. Because I didn't know what this channel was called. I, you know, I didn't know how many subscribers they had, I basically didn't know what I was talking about. So what channel I was speaking about was Kurzesagt in a nutshell, but they have 8.7 million subscribers. So you should definitely check this channel out. They make great animations, explaining the universe and things in it, basically. So I just wanted to pop in here to say that

Andrew 21:10
there is a difference as well when it comes to YouTube. So some people are doing YouTube as a, like YouTube is the business, right? So they're going to grow that audience and then they're going to make money through ad revenue. Like that's slightly different to using it for business. So if you use it for business to attract clients, you don't need like thousands and thousands, thousands of views per video millions of subscribers, right? You just need the right kinds of people watching your videos.

Pete 21:42
Yeah, so for example, he could go down that route of you know, being entertaining and growing it and, and trying to have as many followers as possible, and then trying to monetise that with affiliate links or brand deals or whatnot, and it could get you in the door, most definitely with other agencies and other clients that see you and think, oh, wow, they're really good. And I need a motion design. So I'm going to check you out more. But you could just use it to grow your business as well. And that's how we use it, we don't aim to get 100,000 subscribers by, you know, being daft and silly. Like we aim him to grow a small, but we obviously be nice to have millions but more quality followers of small business owners, micro business owners, that actually could be potential clients. So for example, if you're listening to this, you could come check out our YouTube channel, you might enjoy it. It's Andrew and Pete TV, Andrew pete.tv, that'll take you right to our YouTube channel. And you can check it out. And that's that's what we love to do. I help people, there's just like short 510 minute videos, br little bit entertaining, and people subscribe to that, then they'll join our email list. And then we'll continue to nurture them. And then one day, you will buy from us. I'll be out

Hayley Akins 23:03
yet, I wanted to ask you a question that I already know what you're going to answer, but no one else does. So I'm like setting you up basically. But like, do you think that posting something online or social media is better than posting nothing?

Andrew 23:21
Have you seen a talk about it at some point, maybe?

Hayley Akins 23:25
Maybe I've seen a talk, I thought was good.

Pete 23:29
Okay, so this is hilarious. It is a real issue. So people do you think that it's better to just getting something out there rather than nothing. You know, you might be really busy this month, you've really got time to create your own content for you know, your own motion graphics, your own animations, anything, okay, I'll just, I'll just post that video that I did for a client, I'll just post this quote that everyone else has already posted 1000 times. And people think that it's, you know, it's bad to just put something out there to get started and so forth. But actually, if you think about it, like if you're scrolling through Instagram, or you're going through an Instagram story, and you see someone's horrendously boring, irrelevant post, you're going to engage with it. No, are you gonna be looking forward to seeing that person's content again, no. And so what's the algorithm gonna do? It's gonna go, Oh, well, they didn't like it, I'm not going to show them your posts again. And boom, all of a sudden, your reach gets less and less and less. And that's why people's Facebook pages don't get any interaction whatsoever, because they've just been posting something average. And what people do is they'll post something average everywhere. And the so split, and they run Instagram to try to do a YouTube video, they're trying to grow the Facebook page, and they need to do video on Facebook, they're trying to do video on Facebook. And then also, they've got Twitter, because obviously Twitter you need to have Twitter. But what I'm a graphics person, so it's a visual thing. So I should really have a Pinterest account. So I'm gonna have a Pinterest account. I mean, you just get so overwhelmed trying to post in all these different places, and oh, my God, LinkedIn needs to be, I need to be on LinkedIn. And all of a sudden, you're overwhelmed. And you just producing something average for each because you're so spread. Yeah. So we like to say that you should just focus on one place. And we call it the 9010 rule. And you should put 90% of your marketing efforts into just doing one thing remarkably well in one place, until it pays off big time. Because all the successful people do that. And then eventually, they will start something else that the most successful YouTubers are successful. And then they have a podcast event tweet, or then they grow their Instagram. But it did not do it at the same time.

Andrew 25:52
Yes. So actually, a lot of motion designers, small businesses, right, the one man bands and we don't have time to be with all of this stuff that marketers will tell you to do. I think the problem is, we look at all the successful YouTubers, all the people killing it on Facebook and killing it on LinkedIn. And we feel like we need to be like doing all those different things, not realising, well, that probably just do them really well on Facebook, if you go check out the Twitter is probably rubbish, right. So if you're strapped for time, we honestly think rather than creating just a crop, but if content, like you would make more money by just calling three people and talking to them. You know, I mean, like content marketing is not like a magic bullet solution. I think it almost distract, as well as is good for people's businesses and probably distract them as much as it actually helps them a lot of the time. So when you're putting together a content marketing strategy, just have like, ultimate focus, like why are you actually go into growth.

Pete 26:58
And that's a really good point. For example, there's a guy called Brian Dean, and he creates these epically long blogs through incredible blogs. But he only does them like once every six weeks. once every six weeks, most people are trying to do one a week, or one a month, or two a month. And they're not all that good if we quite frankly, ask ourselves, so I would rather you do a awesome emotional action , whatever entertaining animation once a month, then for average ones once a week. Because like, like Hunter is saying, if you're just posting an average blog, it's more a waste of time, if anything actually being helpful to you. Which is strange. We think about it, I mean, well, I will say is that don't let that hold you back from getting started in improving everyone starts out not amazing. And then the impressive. So don't let that hold you back from even start. And, of course, we all need to start somewhere. However, training proof and invest the time as quickly as possible so that you get better. Also,

Andrew 28:11
think outside the box. Like just because you're creative doesn't mean that you need to like your 90% should be focused on like Instagram or Pinterest. Like it. Can you imagine if you grown a personal brand on LinkedIn, and you're doing it by creating these epic animated videos like no one does that LinkedIn. So there's places where you can use your skill and your talent to actually stand out even Twitter like no one does great. like Twitter is just full of crap. Imagine if you actually create amazing content, and you became like, the best account follow on Twitter?

Pete 28:47
Yeah, we would be like a, I mean, you should see this person because they were awesome. We would use you as an example, if you're listening to this.

Hayley Akins 28:57
If you're looking for some example, from motion design industry, yes.

So um, yeah, I totally get that. And I feel like it's good to people to hear this. Because in our industry, there's like a lot of thing about like dailies, like doing these, like daily animations, and you have to like put stuff out, like every day to get noticed. And I just, I just really think that, like, if you're just under that pressure, then you're probably not making really good animations.

Pete 29:26
Yeah. Yeah. And that's good fear.

Andrew 29:29
Yeah, I think client check her out. Unless you've got like all the time in the world. So if you are just starting out, and you have got literally no clients, then yeah, I invest time in creating as much great content as possible. But as soon as you feel like the quality slipping, because you just trying to get something out there for the sake of it, then I think about what you're doing is should be a warning sign.

Pete 29:56
Yeah, it's a definite trigger word. The moment you're creating work, you stressed out about the time, you know, this is all right. I'll just put it out that if you hear the word, it's okay. It's all right. Or that will do , but just got something up there today. Or not. They're all key trigger words for it's not good enough. If it's not your best, if you're not proud of it, you are not gonna want to promote it as much as you should, and people aren't gonna see it and go, I need to hire them. Because that was average.

Hayley Akins 30:27
Yeah, and I like to that you saying about like building a personal brand on LinkedIn and stuff. We've talked about LinkedIn on this podcast before because I feel like it is a unutilised area for motion designers, because obviously, it's like business to business. And a lot of people are like, I want direct clients, but then no one's really doing like any content marketing on there or anything. And I know that you've got some tips around LinkedIn, I think you did one video recently talking about like, using the LinkedIn video thing? Do you just want to tell us a bit about that?

Pete 30:59
Yes. So we've got a whole series of videos on LinkedIn, about LinkedIn on our YouTube channel, including like ultimate all in one strategy. And then also some like posts, ideas and ways to increase your following and retention and stuff like that. So right now LinkedIn is having a bit of a Renaissance and its algorithm updates have vastly improved the platform and designs got a bit better in the functionality. And all of a sudden, people were starting to shift their attention. Next is a lot less busy than Facebook and Instagram. And so you can start to get a lot more traction, which is amazing. So the biggest thing on there right now is video. It's really easy. It's on now on LinkedIn with good video, not boring video, but good video, and animations, stop motion graphics, anything like that would go down such a storm on that. If you did it really well. Yeah.

Hayley Akins 31:57
Yeah, we have like another podcast, I told Maya Perkins, she's like, doing really well on LinkedIn and getting direct clients because she posts a lot of her like, behind the scenes of like, how she makes stuff and some of her final animations and stuff like that, and always see that it's just got, like, so many, like the likes and loads of people viewed it. And even me posting like this podcast, it gets so much more than like, if I post on my Facebook business page, it's just like nothing. Whereas if I post that linkedin people are actually seeing it, you know?

Andrew 32:26
Yeah, I feel like there's another part of the puzzle as well with content marketing as well. So we've talked a lot about audience building content. The other part of content marketing is the sales content. Right? So answering all the questions like How much does, how much does that motion graphic design a cost? Or how long is the project going to be? Or even just when people are actually in your sales pipeline, how you use in content or your skill to like, convert them into clients? So actually, we have a seasonal podcast as well. And our podcast editor, we we didn't know this guy before we hired him. But he got our attention, because he actually created us like a mini podcast out of our YouTube channels. content, audio, right, and he sent it to us. It's like, Guys, you need a podcast. Like, this is why you could sound like I like, Oh, that's really cool. Right? And then he actually sent us a proposal as a podcast.

Hayley Akins 33:34
That's amazing. Yeah. So imagine

Andrew 33:36
like, if you're, if you have people on the fence, imagine if your proposals were actually animations like animated proposals.

Hayley Akins 33:46
Yeah, that takes a lot. That's going to take a long time. But if it's worth it, if you have like a big, like a big client in mind that you really want that you can actually get in touch with I could see that that would work

Andrew 33:57
or like templates.

Pete 34:00
Have you found a template proposal, and you just change the price?

Hayley Akins 34:07
Yeah, that makes sense. So like, yes, like, Oh, we want to do this for you. It costs this much. And it can be like, that's another thing about well, how it why the nice thing is good, you know, because then it would make more sense, because then you wouldn't have to change this but stuff. It's like a certain type of client.

Pete 34:24
Yeah, yes, exactly. So I think those were really great ways to, to stand out the moment we heard that podcast, like, this is what you could sound like on a podcast, that the the, it's the Andrew & Pete show. Oh my God, we can visualise it well, and much and I even. And it was like no brainer, like, let's hire this guy. That's great. So that that's, that's really cool. And there's lots of things you can do in your industry to stand out and make a really big impact that way.

Hayley Akins 34:55
One more thing that I wanted to ask you about was you had a video about a pricing quiz. And we have a lot of problems with pricing in our industry. And about are you charging enough to run a like give us a quick rundown of how we figure out how whether we're charging enough

Andrew 35:14
or no, I'm trying to remember what exactly was in that quiz. Definitely check out this video, in case we don't remember. But like pretty much, this is another big bugbear of us, like small businesses, not charging enough. So like in that video, we like rundown, I think it was like five or six different ways that you could tell if you are charging enough or not. So one thing that we did when we started is, and if you like now to a degree is that our price just never stops going up. Right. So you are getting better and better better at what you do. So your price should always go up. So when we started, we actually did a lot of graphic design type just get started before we talked about market and the content. And every single client that we got, the price went up for the next one. Yeah, so we used to do logo design how logo, she said, I think they're like 50 quid, and then it was 100 quid, then 150 quid and 500 quid, I think we got up to like 1500 pounds for our logo by the end of it. So if you haven't put your prices up in the past like six months, then chances are you're not charging enough. And if you're not profitable, so like, if you're not profitable, then you're probably not charging enough, like work out what your hourly rate actually is. And if it's like crap,

Pete 36:31
and then you're not charging enough, and I think that the permission behind this is if you want to grow your business, you need to work on the business, to create that template proposal to create the awesome content that's going to attract your clients to hunt out these potential clients and call them up and say what, you know, talk to you and get some ideas from my content. If you weren't taught the time to do all that stuff, you need to actually be charging enough so that you don't have to work all hours of the day. So if you are working all day, solidly, and you even have to work late and tonight or even weekends, then you're probably not charging enough. And the moment you don't charge enough, you have to have more clients and you have to do more work to make the money. And that's really tough, because then you're in that vicious cycle. Because if you're not creating the content, and you're not improving your processes and working on your business, then you're not going to have the confidence that quite frankly to say I deserve to charge this higher rate because you've not got the online presence to prove it. Whereas if you're if you are creating content, it does give you that confidence and the demand to say no, actually, I could charge more. So it becomes this vicious cycle. And the only way to break it is to actually raise your price initially, with your current clients, as well as for new clients. So that you can then have the time to create content and so forth. If you've got like, one morning, a week to work on your business. That's not enough. The average blog posts takes 3.5 hours to write for you guys, I presume it an animation takes way longer than that. The people, the people that actually have the best results with plugins spend over six hours per blog. And if that's you guys, if you need to spend six hours in, you've only got one morning a week to work on your business, you are not going to be able to create content, because you've got probably your accounts, you've got the proposal to create, you've got that biz dev today, you've got all that all those emails to reply to. And if you've only got like one month in a week or even two, I it's not long enough. So you need to charging enough to work less, to be able to create the content in the first place that is going to be able to put you in the right uplifting cycle to then create amazing content to get the demand to charge more and get bigger clients,

Hayley Akins 39:15
I can tell you for a fact that most people listening to this are just working all the time constantly. And they're never doing any marketing. And they're just like, they're either like not working at all. And they don't know how to get clients and get started. Or they're kind of working so much as a freelance and they're not giving like any time to themselves, because they're just so frightened of like was the next client coming from, you know, relying on referrals.

Pete 39:41
Again, that's like the deeper issue, which comes down to self confidence. And that's something that we are trying to help in our membership site atomic, because we see this issue a lot with people. And you're never going to raise your prices if you don't have the confidence to do that. But if you're listening to this podcast and thinking I probably can't charge any more than what i do I'm already quite a premium rate. Or if you're thinking okay, can you actually imagine just picking up the phone right now? Calling that client just imagine this listener, right? Imagine this right now call a client and say, Hey, so I'm actually going through raising the prices. And it's going to be this much it's actually double the price. How cringe worthy and awkward does that feel right now you're like churning inside thinking about that? You probably are. And we see so many people struggle with that. And again, if you can't do those things, and it's not just pricing, it's things like negotiating. It's things like, directly contacting people and doing that research, or do we know whatever all these things are very scary. And that's like one of the things we aim to tackle in a membership site. First, before we go into any like content, because it's often underlining issue as to why they're not creating that content and not growing the business in the first place.

Hayley Akins 41:06
Yeah, that makes sense. Well, where can people find out more about Andrew and Pete? Where can they go?

Andrew 41:13
Awesome. Well, our website is Andrewandpete.com would love you to check out our YouTube channel is you can get to by going to Andrewandpete.tv. subscribe while you're there, let us know if you found us from this podcast. And yeah, reach out. We are quite sociable. So if you message us on any of the platforms, we will reply

Pete 41:36
personally. And if anyone is thinking, that's me, I cannot raise our prices. And I'm very scared about this kind of stuff. But I would highly recommend people check out atomic as well, because I might really, really help you.

Hayley Akins 41:49
Awesome. Well, yeah, thank you so much for coming on the show. There's so much great info in there. Thanks

Pete 41:57
for listening. I hope it helps. We'd love to see you well from my youtube channel with a comment saying that you came from this podcast.

Hayley Akins 42:04
Awesome. Thanks. Okay. Thanks, everybody.

Thank you again to Andrew and Pete for coming on the show. They're just a really awesome guys, and they make marketing fun. So if you want to check more out about them, do go to Andrew and pete.com. Or you can check out the YouTube channel Andrewandpete.tv. And if you want to check out all the tools and stuff we spoke about, you can go to the show notes at motion hatch show. com forward slash 42. Thank you so much for listening right to the end. I really appreciate it. If you've enjoyed this episode, please do consider sharing with a friend and subscribing. We've got so much good stuff coming up for you. You can always tweet at us at motion hatch on Twitter and you can send us a message or do a little story featuring the motion hatch podcast on Instagram. We are at motion hatch I really appreciate you all listening. Thanks so much. See ya



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