How to make passive income as a motion designer

Justin Archer (00:00): I mean, I've been regularly reviewing my months for years now and I will link something from like February last year that I, that relates to something that is quite recently happened and there's an opportunity. So yeah, I think that it's quite important to put down what your wins and your failures are for a month because they could lead into a future success combined with something that you've learned more recently.

Hayley Akins (00:28): Hey hatchlings. Welcome to the motion hatch podcast. I'm your host, Hailey Akins. Hey hatchings and welcome to episode 95 of the motion hatch podcast today on the show we have just an Archer I worked with just some recently and our MoGraph accelerator program is a six month coaching and mastermind program. So if you're interested in that, just send us an email at hello@motionhatch.com. And we'll get back to you with some more information about it. But today we want to talk to Justin about how he created a passive income business making templates to final cut pro editors. This is allowed him the freedom to create his new creative studio bash wax. So we dive deep into how you can make money on the side as a freelancer or as a full-time motion designer, making templates just in his found a way to work with other people's audiences to market his products as well, which is really, really amazing. And even if you're not looking to make money on the side, creating templates, I think that there are some really great marketing tips and also some mindset ones too, in this episode. So let's get into it.

Hayley Akins (01:40): Hey Justin, thank you so much for coming on the show. Great. Thank you so much for having me Hayley.

Hayley Akins (01:45): So you have 21,000 sales of your templates on Envato market, which I thought was pretty impressive. So do you want to tell us a little bit about how you got started making templates and a bit about your background?

Justin Archer (01:59): Okay. Sure. So I have been a professional motion designer for nine years now, half of that has been working for companies specifically. I started out in Marine science and doing animations for them, and then I moved on to online education and then the other time, or the other half of that time has been spent freelancing and also just pursuing my own projects. One of which being creating the templates we'll find a GoPro. So yeah, so let me just break down. I think that I started building templates more as a way for me to commission my own personal projects. So where I, what I was working on at the time I was put for quite an extended period of time on an accounting project, which as far as motion design projects go, it's pretty low on the totem pole of what you'd rather be doing.

Justin Archer (02:48): And I wasn't getting enough exposure to the 3d work that I wanted to be doing at the time. And so I was creating personal projects, but nothing that I took seriously enough. And then I saw invited. So I never really thought much of it, but I thought, okay, this will be a cool opportunity. The rugby world cup was on at the time and I thought, okay, let me see if I can create a 3d model of a rugby ball texture, and then competent after fixing some way that makes it look a photo realistic. So I set myself that challenge and I thought, okay, I technically have a client. And if I sell anything at all, that's a bonus on top of it. So it was basically just another motivator for me to do my own personal projects, because at that time I wanted to put a more diverse or showreel together of projects that I wasn't getting enough exposure to.

Justin Archer (03:37): And I did sell a few things fortunately, or unfortunately the exchange rate here is so poor. So any dollars was quite like a windfall. So it's opened my eyes to what was possible. Then after that, I started researching a bit more and I noticed that it was more of the multi-purpose kind of motion graphics that were selling more regularly, things like titles, for example. So I started putting more of my time into creating a lower thirds and titles projects for after effects and those would sell a lot better, but I also noticed that they would only have a certain window of opportunity to sell before something new came out and took the sales that you would have had otherwise. And that's when I started digging a bit more and I noticed that the final cut pro was completely under saturated as a marketing comparison to author fix.

Justin Archer (04:29): And fortunately at the time I was working at a business where I was, I think, one or two motion designers with seven editors, all of whom were editing on final cut pro. So I needed to know that pipeline. And I had some knowledge, very little, but I had enough knowledge that I could build a final cut pro template. Quite in fact, it was exactly the same as the author fixed load with a template that I made at the start built that over a couple of weekends uploaded it. And it was outselling the after fixed version by six to one. So from that point on, it was just basically experiments and with what else would work in and use that I already found a bit of success in. So yeah, it's sort of like grew from what that initial platform of like a one-year period

Hayley Akins (05:14): To what it is today. So when was this, like how many years ago was this when you first died?

Justin Archer (05:20): So at 2015, that was around the time of the world cup. And I sort of started building low thirds title stuff between December and January in 2016. If I remember correctly for some took longer than others, because like I said, I was really starting this with a basic understanding of, of motion. Anybody who's ever like tried that in comparison to aftereffects will know that it is, it's quite a different way of arranging motion graphics. I feel like it's a lot poorer in terms of features, but there are some benefits to it. But I think I also came in a bit like I was biased, you know, I think a lot of aftereffects people are, they look at apple emotion, I think, oh, this thing doesn't have anywhere near the same features or what am I doing wasting my time. But very quickly I realized that it is quite a strong platform that you can do quite a lot with and knowing how many of the YouTubers I followed that were editing on final cut pro and just generally in the space of video production, final cut pro was still super popular and it didn't have a pipeline with as many creators building motion graphics tools for this, for those users.

Hayley Akins (06:32): Yeah. That makes sense. So did you, you sort of saw a gap in the market then, I guess, to kind of fill with your templates because I think that's the question that a lot of people have today. Like you said, like, well, the market is kind of oversaturated, so I guess, would you recommend to anyone who's kind of looking to get started making templates to try and find something that maybe everyone else isn't doing, but there's still a market for, I think that would

Justin Archer (06:57): Help. I think, I don't think people should be going into it just with the focus being on money. I think that I sort of fell into this by mistake. I, like I said, I initially just did it for personal projects and I just noticed a sort of trends that would work in my favor with the, with the fortune that I already had some apple motion experience. And now I've got to like increase that. I mean, I think now if you are going to look at what might work DaVinci resolve is obviously growing quite quickly. And I don't think it's got anywhere near as much of a presence in terms of templates on websites. So there is that gap in the market. But again, I think that you've got to enjoy what I enjoy doing it. You don't want to force yourself into doing something that isn't going to come naturally because that'll show in the work that you produce.

Hayley Akins (07:48): I think that's such a great point because it's like anything, you know, you could do, you could basically do a lot of things to make money, you know, but if you're not enjoying them, then it's kind of besides the point. But I think it is a really good way to like supplement your freelance work and things like that. Because then obviously, you know, we spoke about passive income a bit before on this podcast, but where you have, you know, your clients can kind of come in waves. And I like to think of it. If you can have a little bit of passive income, you can kind of fill in the kind of dips a bit more. So tell us how you choose what templates to make. And I'd love to hear about which products has sold the best as well. All right. So

Justin Archer (08:31): It's kind of a combination of factors. And I think initially it came a lot down to what suited the markets. Obviously you could keep one eye on after effects and see what was doing well there because you don't have the same level of competition in the final cut pro ecosystem. And some of it also came down to if I had learnt a new technique that I hadn't found before or somebody else wasn't using, let's say for example you know, in, in aftereffects with titling, how there was a sort of phase, a lot of templates were coming out where you had texts on screen and the back plates behind it would auto adjust to however long the text was created. Now that took a while to figure out how to get apple motion to do that, and sort of correspond with final cut pro.

Justin Archer (09:17): But when that happened, that that was when I was like, okay, cool. This makes sense. Now I need to build a tool that brings that up. And so that's what I did at the time, but then sometimes it's also just been personal projects again, like I just wanted to create a 3d device mock-ups and I kind of knew that that was more of a niche thing, but I wanted to challenge myself, see if I could build something that looks photo realistic. And if I could find a way to import tracking data into motion that would like give me a big boost. So to speak, I guess. And then sometimes it has been, you know, what, w how, how do I see things playing out? What does sort of the competition doing? And I guess this also leads on to the next question, like, what is my best selling product?

Justin Archer (10:05): I have one project that I've been gradually updating since 2017. And at the time what it was, was I wanted to, you know, how in the cell phone industry, you've got something that's sort of like a mid level, and then you've also got sort of like a, your flagships. So like sort of the S 21 or whatever the latest and most expensive life is. So what I wanted to do is I had a titles, I had several titles packs, a little, all about like 50 to a hundred titles. And I wanted to create one that was 250 price at a slightly more expensive price back bracket and compare the profit margins that those would bring in. So I did that. I took a lot longer and a lot more mental strength, but eventually it came right. And I got the branding okay-ish to be, I was looking back now, it looks poor, but I think for the time in the sort of premature market that existed, it was okay.

Justin Archer (10:58): And then I figured, okay, well, what happens if I sort of update this one time? And I noticed gradually that it earned a reputation, it was getting more five star reviews and getting like positive comments about the the customer service that they were receiving. So it was at that point that I noticed my income was starting to come more from that product and the others that also came down to the fact that there was more competition that, that existed at the start when I first started producing stuff. And I guess that was sort of my focus for a few, maybe two years, maybe two to three years was just updating that, like, I'd put other things up, but they wouldn't do very well. Those were more personal projects. So doing sort of 30 seconds, high energy sequences that people can use to promote an event or a product, but those are just, you know, for myself really.

Justin Archer (11:53): Then the collection was really the focus of bringing the business in building onto something that has already got a reputation because somebody can easily create another titles or a lower thirds product, but it's quite difficult for them to compete when I've got a track record of, you can see at the bottom, like every year, 20 17, 20 18, 20 19, what changes have happened. And also it's completely impossible to compete with, you know, a product that's got a hundred reviews and it's just got sort of excellent client feedback. That's something that is built over time. And that's something that I realized I did take a risk because when I did create that update, it was sort of six months of my life. And I kept telling myself that like, look, it's probably not going to do well, but it's a really paid for itself. The time has already been paid for.

Justin Archer (12:43): And if it does work out, then it can be, it could be hugely beneficial for my follow-up plans, post working on templates. Unfortunately it did work out and it was quite successful. And that led to another major update, which is what I worked on last year, which was basically doubling the amount of content in that, in that motion graphics collection. But it also didn't allow me as much time to focus on my creative endeavors that I would've liked. That's why this year is a complete switch around and I'm focusing much more on my own sort of creative fashion.

Hayley Akins (13:17): Yeah. That makes sense. Like before we get into you know, what you're doing now and how you're moving forward and things like that. Cause I think that's really interesting. I wanted to talk a bit more about like, when was the switch, because I know that originally you were working full time and then your template business could support you. Like when was that and how did you kind of make that decision? Okay.

Justin Archer (13:40): So I suppose my whole sort of journey from starting templates to leading my full-time job actually happened pretty quickly if I look back on it now, cause that happened over a period of a year. And I guess, yeah, like I said, I just got quite fortunate in the position that I was in, that I was also able to determine the kind of trajectory that I should have taken with the template stuff, focusing on final cut pro. So I found after a year that my income from working on templates had already more than doubled what I was earning as a salary. So if anything, I was just spending more or I was wasting my time working at that point, knowing that I could be focusing on taking my own direction outside of my work and obviously earning a lot more for it. So that's when that happened.

Hayley Akins (14:33): Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty impressive. I wanted to talk about marketing a bit because obviously you have to market your products a bit. I assume like you you're many things, stuff, uninvited market, which I guess they kind of help a bit, but do you want to explain a bit about how you have gone about marketing in the past and maybe about how you market now as well?

Justin Archer (14:55): Yeah. Okay. So yeah, like you said that the market does do a lot of its own advertising and they have their own sales at various stages of the year on my own. I've tried a lot of things out and failed and I suppose that's also what I enjoyed a lot about this whole experience is that I have been the driver behind what, what works and what doesn't work. And I've learned a lot out of those failures. So I've tested email marketing campaigns, which have been a total waste of my time and maybe I just didn't do them right. Because I've seen a lot of other creators doing similar things. So they must be working. I probably just didn't have the determination to pursue that further. Other than that, I've also created a YouTube channel. So I was basically creating tutorials for final cut pro editors, obviously only drawback there is that I'm not a final cut pro editor.

Justin Archer (15:43): So my knowledge only extends so far. But fortunately I, I was able to get some knowledge from somebody who does edits in final cut pro more regularly. And also some things were just kind of obvious. And like for instance, one video was basically, you know, an after effects, how you basically have to purge your memory or your cash off to some time. So the same thing happens in final cut pro, but it doesn't have a, a limit. So you could potentially have one final cut pro projects. That's sitting with 250 gigabytes on your computer. And I figured out a quick fix for this and wanted to create a very compressed formats of video that people can understand that. So that was the most successful video that gave me a lot of traction. And other than that, like I've got videos that have, so that one was about 60,000 or the 50,000, and then there's others that have got a few thousand, but it definitely, wasn't my thing.

Justin Archer (16:39): I can tell that I definitely don't have passion for making tutorials maybe for, maybe for after effects one day, but my editing skills, I think I just don't have the confidence to pull those sorts of tutorials. But it was super fun trying to figure out how to build that audience and the lessons that I learned through the YouTube ecosystem as well. But yeah, other than that, I've also spoken to micro influencers on YouTube. In fact, I do have a marketing partner who contacts who's now in charge of finding micro influencers who don't have the biggest followings, but they have a far more direct relationship with the content that you're trying to advertise. So say for instance, I mean, I can use mine as an example cause it's obvious, but I'm trying to reach out to final cut pro editors. So what better way than going after channels that may have only two to 3000 subscribers, but their content is final cut pro content. So if you watching those videos, you are a final cut pro editor. We've got some interest in final cut pro, so it's a direct way of accessing your markets.

Hayley Akins (17:45): Yeah, that's really interesting because you know, the Mo I guess like how I've sort of built this business up is obviously doing this podcast and building the audience and, and stuff like that as well. And you know, doing a lot of free content and that kind of thing. And I can see that a lot of people don't want to do that. Like, like we were talking about earlier, you have to enjoy the process. You know, I have to enjoy making these podcasts. I'm not just doing it just for me. You know, I like doing it. I like helping people and stuff like that. But like your example, you're not a final cut pro editor you're you were kind of doing that to like support your business, even though you did have like some interest in it as well, which totally makes sense. Which, you know, now it would make more sense, like you said, to do more after effects, tutorials and things like that. But yeah, I've, I just wanted to dig more into the micro influencer thing. Cause I think that's super smart and I think most people wouldn't really understand like how to go about that. So tell me to begin with like, why micro influencers, like why these kind of small YouTubers who only have like a couple of thousand followers or something like that, subscribers,

Justin Archer (18:50): I think because it's possible for you to take much less of a financial hits on a risk, because if you're paying a big influence and it doesn't work out then, and I've done this, like you can end up spending, you know, a thousand dollars on a video that makes you no hits. But if you find a small influencer with 2000 or 3000 subscribers, you can pay them a hundred or $150. Cause they're just starting out. And so your burden is far less.

Hayley Akins (19:17): Yeah, that makes sense. I kind of like it as well. The idea, cause I mean, not many companies, especially the big ones would support this more YouTube is and would pay the many thing, you know? So I kind of like that. You know, you thought to do that and you're paying them a little bit and then you're kind of getting a lot back from that. I think it's actually like a really nice way of working, you know? Cause like you say most, most small kind of YouTubers like around 2000 K probably not really getting any offers for, you know, any sponsorship or anything like that. So I think it's kind of a nice thing too. Cause then you get to support their channels as well. They're also

Justin Archer (19:52): Tend to be more passionate about what they're doing. I mean, this is obviously on a case by case basis, but if you've got somebody who has a channel with a million to 2 million subscribers or even like 300,000, then it is a lot more of a business and it's, it is, you know, I find that they are a lot more or less willing to take the job as passionately as perhaps somebody who who's got a, a real interest in editing and has taken that up by building a channel. So you get a lot more of a personal experience through somebody who's perhaps got a smaller following, but it's doing it for the right reasons. Not that somebody who is big as not, but I can understand that there's a lot more on their plates.

Hayley Akins (20:36): Yeah. Like they have more sponsors, like they have more requests for people asking them to do stuff. So your product or whatever you're trying to kind of advertise through them is obviously not going to, you know, get as far or they're not maybe going to be able to put as much into it, but it's, I guess I get what you mean. You're trying to, it's like weighing up that you know, the amount of views versus like the amount of effort and time someone might put into something as well. I think so you

Justin Archer (21:06): Have a much more real relationship with somebody who's able to give you a little bit more time to, you know, be personal. Otherwise sometimes it's just like he has, this is what I'm going to be advertising to say, you don't even speak directly to the person who's going to be, you know, looking at it and reviewing it and telling people what they think about it. But that's not to influence the content at all. It's just, you know, missing the ability to have a face-to-face conversation and just be like

Hayley Akins (21:35): Normal. Yeah, of course. So, and as well, I feel like with some small YouTubers or podcasters or whatever, they have quite a lot of influence with their audience because they probably know their audience more personally and stuff like that as well. And they probably interact with them a bit more the community, you know, like I was trying to talk to people quite a lot and get a lot of feedback for the podcast and all of that kind of stuff all the time. And so I feel like if I can imagine if you've got like a channel with a million subscribers, you know, you're not talking directly to the audience, like as much as it would be if you kind of have a smaller following, you know, cause he just can't like it, it would be impossible. Yeah,

Justin Archer (22:15): Absolutely. Your viewership is spread a lot wider than sort of a much more narrow, smaller channels, fewer shippers.

Hayley Akins (22:21): Yeah, exactly. And those channels, I think as well, maybe aren't as niche too. So I think there's really a lot power and like sponsoring kind of niche influences, you know? So yeah, I'd love to talk more about like with, so basically what you're doing is you're, you're sort of marketing your product to someone else's audience, so you don't need to have your own audience, but like how much is of those kind of micro influencers? How much are they bringing in sales compared to like Embato market kind of marketing it themselves?

Justin Archer (22:57): That's hard to determine you know, sometimes you get some, somebody who just gets the algorithm rights. I think one of the first influences that I worked with, we were able to hit a hundred thousand views on one video. And that obviously you noticed pretty quickly, but I think for the, for the most part, it's, it's a lot lower and a lot less noticeable, but I sort of see it as quite an important part of the business to keep. Yeah. Like just because Coke's known around the world doesn't mean they stop advertising. You have to, there's still people that it hasn't reached and yeah, it's just a way of keeping the name out there. And I see like a marketing budget as just part of the running day-to-day part of the business.

Hayley Akins (23:41): Yeah. No, I think it's really awesome. So I want to move on to talk a bit about what you mentioned earlier about, you know, what this template business has kind of allowed you to do now and what your focus is going to be moving forward. So I know you obviously joined our six-month MoGraph accelerator program to work on your new studio bash wax, which I'm really excited about. So I want to tell us about like how, what you did last year. You mentioned it a bit earlier and like how has that allowed you to work on your studios, your full focus?

Justin Archer (24:15): Right. Okay. So last year I spent the whole year with another major update to the collection with the idea being that if I focus on that, it would give me enough passive income that I could have the freedom of time this year to really focus on finding my style. So this year has been more about creative projects collaborating with designers that I look up to taking courses, I'm currently doing the advanced motion methods and I've also done quite a few motion design school courses as well. So I've really just enjoyed using this year to watch guys that I've been watching for years, create amazing stuff, learn the techniques that they that they've been honing for years and also just creating like whatever I want to create on my social media pages, but also just embracing more of the freelance projects as well.

Justin Archer (25:06): Cause I think in the past, obviously excusing loss cause last year was just mostly put on the templates. Before that I would only get to do one like sort of real job every three months or one every two months, for example. But that's more of the direction that I want to take. And the idea behind bash Rex is I haven't put out a show reel in five or six years, probably since I first went when freelance and decided that if I'm going to start doing more creative work, now it makes sense to build it underneath a new identity, not myself because there is the potential for that to grow into something else one day. And like you said, this has also given me, you know, financial opportunities that could work as startup capital to pursuing something bigger than just myself. So yeah, right now I'm just enjoying being on my own, not having any outside pressures or stresses that I can just focus my time on what makes my own animation journey fun this year and then see how much content I've produced. Cause my plan is, I think by January, February I'll have enough work that I'm really proud of that I can build into a showreel and then a website and then see where that takes me. But don't, don't look too far ahead. Just enjoy the moment that I'm in now.

Hayley Akins (26:26): That's awesome. I mean, it's just being great to, you know, what you plan all this and like help you do that obviously in the program as well. And I know that now you're like putting out weekly posts on Instagram, which is just incredible because you can, you can put the time into it and learn new skills and like, it just, it looks really good. And I know it's going to pay off a lot because you're really focused on that work. And obviously most people like the biggest issue, right. Is like, well, I don't have time to do my personal projects cause I'm like working all the time. Right. So that's kind of the situation you're in now because of the template business. And obviously you put a lot of hard work in last year to build that up, but you kind of had it planned, right.

Hayley Akins (27:06): That that's where you were going to do. You're like, okay, this is the year that I'm going to spend doing this. And then that's going to allow me to do that. So I was like to think of that. It's sort of like working in seasons in your business. I don't know whether you feel like the same way. So you're like, all right, I'm doing this because I know that in the future, I want to kind of work more towards that goal. And that's gonna allow me to do that. I mean, how do you kind of look at that?

Justin Archer (27:30): Yeah, I do see it like that, but I think that, I mean, that's something that I learned through the accelerators that I overestimate or underestimate how much time was required. So I thought that update was going to take six, seven months and I was getting super pumped, checking out school of motion, motion designers could be like, oh, I'm going to do this in July. And this one in September and September rolled around and I'm not even like starting marketing branding any of that stuff yet. So I guess seasons, but extended seasons. So things have taken a lot longer than I thought, but I'm also, I'm fine with that because that's just part of like the journey. I just totally underestimated things and they still have worked out just over a longer period of time. And I'm still kind of, I'm still very happy with the position that I'm in today. I still got there just, just a little bit later.

Hayley Akins (28:25): Yeah. And I think that's a good, like realistic kind of message to put out there. Right. Because it does take time, you know, I even with motion hats, you know, everything takes longer than I expect it to, you know, always like even no matter how much you plan and everything like that always takes you a little bit longer. Like we're launching our YouTube channel, hopefully in September. I keep saying that to everyone so that everyone holds me accountable. But you know, it's, I've been trying to work on like launching officially launching, cause we actually do have a YouTube channel already, but putting out weekly videos for like, I've been working up to this for about two years, I think, you know, because I didn't want to kind of let the podcast suffer or anything like that. You know, I wanted to kind of really concentrate on that before I moved into YouTube and all that kind of thing.

Hayley Akins (29:11): So I totally get that. And I think it's great to kind of put this message out because obviously yes, like is possible to sell templates online is possible to make money on the side of your freelance business, all of this kind of stuff, but it's not going to just happen like overnight, you know, and you have to work hard at it too. Like it's what we are always saying about passive income, you know? It's, it is passive income, but you have to put a lot of the work upfront on it to kind of get that passive income later.

Justin Archer (29:42): Right? Absolutely. And I think like I said earlier, like people shouldn't focus on just trying to, you know, from the start, just build up the money, just experiment with as many different things as possible. I think I, I was kind of fortunate for having that accounting project in a way because it kind of forced me to look online at as many different things as possible and just brainstorm how I could use the, you know, the knowledge that I had to like 3d the knowledge I had of final cut pro apple motion and sort of the branding experience that I had working on the companies that I did and use that to create something on an online platform that did already exist and people are going to have their own sort of expertise in matters that suits them a lot better. And maybe something that doesn't even exist on the online platform yet does arise and you'll find time to do that or just make the time and don't put too much pressure on yourself.

Justin Archer (30:35): I think that that's also important, I think, yeah, during the accelerator this year, we, I had the some wild idea that I'd have a website by the end of it, which was crazy. I mean, I didn't even have enough content that I was proud of to make a reel of 10 seconds with. So I think that's, yeah, if there's anything I take out of it, like don't expect things to happen super quickly. Just enjoy the lessons. And if you can maybe review month to month, what you did, didn't didn't that bump that you, you learned something from it and it could be horrendous failure, but there's far more to gain from failure than there is from success.

Hayley Akins (31:10): Yeah, definitely that idea of fail fast. I'm a big fan of, you know, just keep putting stuff out there and like, and like failure is such a kind of weird word anyway, cause it's like what we might think of as failure. Isn't like actually, like it's not like a crazy failure that, you know, everyone in the world's going to know about, you know, most failures that motion designers have a pretty kind of small, right? So like, I feel like it's like you put some work out there and nobody likes it. You know, like it doesn't, it doesn't matter that much as what I'm trying to say, you know? And I feel like what this podcast has taught me a lot is just to like ship stuff, just keep putting stuff out late. You know, I have to put a podcast out every other week because everyone's expecting it. So that's kind of taught me to just keep doing that and keep going. And also like you mentioned, what we were talking about in the accelerator a lot is, you know, making sure you make a plan and another thing is like, you know, share your wins with people. Like, think about that, think about what you've done in the past month or the past quarter and think about, okay, what went well, what didn't go so well and how can we adjust? Yeah. Right. And

Justin Archer (32:18): Then also just look back on that stuff, because I mean, I've been regularly reviewing my months for years now and I will link something from like February last year that I, that relates to something that is quite recently happened and there's an opportunity. So, you know, I think that it's quite important to put what your wins and your failures are for a month because they could lead into a future success combined with something that you've learned more recently or at least the lessons that you've learned there that can combine quite well with something else that you've learned more recently.

Hayley Akins (32:51): Yeah, definitely. So do you want to tell the audience what's one thing you want them to take away from this episode?

Justin Archer (32:59): I think that when I first looked at the, an inviter looking at templates, I saw it already as a totally saturated markets. And that was 2016. And I suppose it, I looked at it like that because it had been around for 2009. And so when I, when I did start putting stuff on there, like I said, it was for personal projects, but I thought there's no way that I'm going to put a, put a titles package together or that it will have any success, but I think you should keep open-minded that just because something's been around for such a while, doesn't mean that there's no opportunities there. So I mean, the templates, for example animated, typography posters have become quite popular as a niche over the last sort of year and a half. So yeah, don't be closed minded to opportunities that have already existed for an extended period of time and just test things out. I would say, I mean, yeah. See if you can commission yourself to do a personal project that can also be a logo sting for something that's quite niche that worked out for me and sort of, if anything, it just sort of started the journey for me to think more proactively about what my own expertise could lead me on a

Hayley Akins (34:12): Journey. Yeah. That's awesome. So do you want to tell the audience a bit about where they can find out more about you and your work? Of course.

Justin Archer (34:20): So on video hive, you can find me the username is Christina. So that's V Y S T I N a S probably another funny part of it is to mention that that brand was created. I didn't know what to call it. So that was the first portion of my university password that I thought, okay, I'll just use this for now. It'll work as a brand. So I can make a few dollars off this review thing. And now it is obviously six years down the line and a lot bigger than what I ever invested in it. Otherwise bash wax, if you want to check out what's the creative stuff that I'm working on now that is on Instagram and dribble. So that's B a S H w.

Hayley Akins (34:57): Awesome. Well, thanks Justin. And we'll put all the links as well in the show notes so everyone can find them easily. So thank

Hayley Akins (35:03): You so much for coming on the show. This has been great as a pleasure. Thank you for having me. Thanks again to just him for coming on the show. If you want to find all the links we mentioned, remember you can always go to the show notes at motion, hatch.com forward slash 95. Make sure you check out his templates and also his new studio bash works. Thanks so much for listening. I appreciate you.